| kushal | <--CLASS STARTED --> | Jul 01 18:57 |
|---|---|---|
| *kushal has changed the topic to: Welcome to Linux User's Group of Durgapur | Mailing list at http://lists.dgplug.org/listinfo.cgi/users-dgplug.org | Old classes http://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/ | DOWNLOAD THIS http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/i-want-2-do-project-tell-me-wat-2-do.pdf | From 7:00pm mbuf on FS project guidelines | 10:30pm rishi on shell commands | <--CLASS STARTED --> | Jul 01 18:57 | |
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| *kushal gives channel operator status to mbuf | Jul 01 18:57 | |
| mbuf | --> #2 | Jul 01 18:57 |
| *kushal gives channel operator status to Soumya | Jul 01 18:57 | |
| mbuf | The views expressed in this presentation are that of my own! | Jul 01 18:57 |
| mbuf | People are welcome to agree to disagree; but, these things I have learnt from experience | Jul 01 18:58 |
| *mavu is now known as mavu_ | Jul 01 18:58 | |
| mbuf | so, I believe, it is the methodology of work that will be fruitful for all | Jul 01 18:58 |
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| mbuf | Again, you are welcome to modify, re-distribute, copy this presentation provided you retain my name in the presentation | Jul 01 18:58 |
| mbuf | --> #3 | Jul 01 18:59 |
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| mbuf | People mistakenly call the system as "Linux"; we Free Software enthusiasts refer to the system as "GNU/Linux" | Jul 01 18:59 |
| mbuf | Open source guys are comfortable with mixing proprietary as well as open source code; Free Software is different from Open Source | Jul 01 19:00 |
| mbuf | The word "hacker" is heavily misused in the media; Hackers are programmers who pursue programming as an artistic passion, who are eager to solve challenging problems | Jul 01 19:00 |
| mbuf | The people who steal passwords, break down networks, cause DoS attacks are called 'crackers' | Jul 01 19:00 |
| mbuf | So, whenever anyone uses the terminology incorrectly, kindly correct them! | Jul 01 19:01 |
| mbuf | --> #4 | Jul 01 19:01 |
| mbuf | It is very important in society to understand the meaning of 'earn your living' | Jul 01 19:01 |
| mbuf | most people try to inherit their parents' property or business, and live on it for life -- without doing much work | Jul 01 19:02 |
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| mbuf | status in society is not measured by how much wealth you have, but, what you have contributed to society | Jul 01 19:02 |
| mbuf | so, work is important in life; and a good balance between work and play is essential | Jul 01 19:02 |
| mbuf | --> #5 | Jul 01 19:02 |
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| mbuf | In the Free Software world, you have to have the eagerness and drive to get information | Jul 01 19:03 |
| mbuf | Most of the information is already out there; even when you program, you are bound to get stuck with errors; but, ability to hunt on the Internet, with a resolve to solve the problem is important | Jul 01 19:04 |
| mbuf | it is a contest of "Survival of the Fittest" | Jul 01 19:04 |
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| mbuf | When there is hunger for knowledge, you should not feel hungry for food :) | Jul 01 19:04 |
| mbuf | basically, you should have the 'attitude' to aggressively work on code; and also have the 'aptitude' to solve problems | Jul 01 19:05 |
| mbuf | logical reasoning in problem solving is a _must_ if you want to become a good developer | Jul 01 19:05 |
| mbuf | --> #6 | Jul 01 19:05 |
| mbuf | just because you have an engineering degree in your hand, it doesn't make you an engineer | Jul 01 19:06 |
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| mbuf | just because you did a course in some technical institute, and you got a certificate, it doesn't make you an engineer | Jul 01 19:06 |
| mbuf | just because you paid money for four years of engineering, it doesn't make you an engineer | Jul 01 19:06 |
| mbuf | you cannot buy knowledge; you have to seek knowledge; unfortunately this educational society has been made into a business model, without imparting much know-how to "students" | Jul 01 19:07 |
| mbuf | you can hold a ECE degree, and still do CS work; it really doesn't matter in the Industry | Jul 01 19:08 |
| mbuf | all that matters is your ability to work; ability to solve problems; ability to learn | Jul 01 19:08 |
| mbuf | Unfortunately, in most Industries, non-technical people review your resumes, and they see degree/certificates | Jul 01 19:08 |
| mbuf | even then, you need to sustain yourself in the Industry, for which you should really work hard (bureaucracy is an exception) | Jul 01 19:09 |
| mbuf | most students basically waste their four years of engineering, and "hope" that they can learn well during their job time | Jul 01 19:09 |
| mbuf | you have to really compete with developers across the world; when you start working with Free Software projects, you interact with people across the world | Jul 01 19:10 |
| mbuf | and you will realize what people of your age are doing, and where you really stand | Jul 01 19:10 |
| mbuf | --> #7 | Jul 01 19:10 |
| mbuf | As we discussed in our communication guidelines presentation, "functional English" is essential | Jul 01 19:10 |
| mbuf | you should have the knack of reading, reading, reading -- HOWTOs on the web, e-mail/IRC instructions, books, FS magazines et. al. | Jul 01 19:11 |
| mbuf | the more you read, the more you learn; atleast one technical book a week should be your target | Jul 01 19:12 |
| mbuf | the day you stop reading, you will become stagnant, and you will not be able to keep up the pace with the Industry (and Academia) | Jul 01 19:12 |
| mbuf | --> #8 | Jul 01 19:12 |
| mbuf | We have covered mailing list guidelines in our discussion yesterday; | Jul 01 19:13 |
| mbuf | as you gain experience, you should learn to strictly follow the guidelines | Jul 01 19:13 |
| mbuf | --> #9 | Jul 01 19:13 |
| mbuf | People usually come and ask where can I get projects to work on; | Jul 01 19:13 |
| mbuf | there are lot of collaborative development sites, where you can create an account | Jul 01 19:14 |
| mbuf | most projects call for developers with the necessary skills | Jul 01 19:14 |
| mbuf | so you can search for projects of your interests and the skills that they require | Jul 01 19:14 |
| mbuf | you should always choose projects with an objective in mind, that at the end of the project, I will learn A or B or C | Jul 01 19:15 |
| mbuf | nobody knows everything in a project, until they start working on it; so one shouldn't be scared to take challenging projects | Jul 01 19:15 |
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| mbuf | there are always risks, but, you have nothing to lose; experience is what matters at the end | Jul 01 19:15 |
| mbuf | --> #10 | Jul 01 19:16 |
| mbuf | So, you decided on a project, or you have chosen some Mentor(s) to work with | Jul 01 19:16 |
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| mbuf | People are not interested only in your coding skill; coding is only 10% of your profile | Jul 01 19:16 |
| mbuf | wherever it is, there is more to your personality than the coding skills | Jul 01 19:16 |
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| mbuf | this community is very sociable; so you also should learn to move around | Jul 01 19:17 |
| mbuf | yes, with open communication streams, open discussions, people are likely to have difference of opinions | Jul 01 19:17 |
| mbuf | but, that is common everywhere; so learn to move around, learn to make friends; | Jul 01 19:17 |
| mbuf | when writing to a project team, or Mentor, always write about your skills, your area of interest, and something about yourself | Jul 01 19:18 |
| mbuf | this community is built for the people; and it is not just code! | Jul 01 19:18 |
| mbuf | --> #11 | Jul 01 19:18 |
| mbuf | just because you have idle time in college, doesn't mean you can demand work from others :) | Jul 01 19:19 |
| mbuf | most FS developers are working on it because they love what they do; | Jul 01 19:19 |
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| mbuf | so if you are using their time, you have to be little courteous; time is money in this world, and it takes a lot to volunteer to do things | Jul 01 19:20 |
| mbuf | but, there is nothing stronger than the heart of a volunteer! | Jul 01 19:20 |
| mbuf | --> #12 | Jul 01 19:20 |
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| mbuf | people get hyped with the ideas and the fame of Free/Libre/Open Source, that they decide to do a final year FOSS project, just for the sake of it | Jul 01 19:21 |
| mbuf | seriously, it is a waste of your time, the teams' time or your Mentor's time | Jul 01 19:21 |
| mbuf | unless you really have the passion for it, don't attempt it | Jul 01 19:21 |
| mbuf | --> #13 | Jul 01 19:21 |
| mbuf | It is very important to have a discussion with your Mentor before you begin the project | Jul 01 19:21 |
| mbuf | different people have different ways of work; time of work could be different | Jul 01 19:22 |
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| mbuf | communication tool could be different; so it is important to sort all these before you start the project | Jul 01 19:22 |
| mbuf | --> #14 | Jul 01 19:22 |
| mbuf | because most developers are distributed, communication is vital | Jul 01 19:23 |
| mbuf | --> #15 | Jul 01 19:23 |
| mbuf | we have discussed the communication guidelines yesterday; | Jul 01 19:23 |
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| mbuf | --> #16 | Jul 01 19:23 |
| mbuf | English is the accepted language for communication in the Industry | Jul 01 19:23 |
| mbuf | I am repeating it again and again, because, it is important! reading and comprehension are important! | Jul 01 19:24 |
| mbuf | nobody cares whether your spoken is good or bad; | Jul 01 19:24 |
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| mbuf | just like us Europeans native language is not English; but, most Free Software work, AFAIK, is done in Europe; | Jul 01 19:24 |
| mbuf | because, they can really read and understand English; nobody cares about spoken English | Jul 01 19:24 |
| mbuf | --> #17 | Jul 01 19:25 |
| mbuf | people ask me how to improve their English, if it is bad; | Jul 01 19:25 |
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| mbuf | try to read computer magazines; participating in mailing list discussions -- understanding the conversations | Jul 01 19:26 |
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| mbuf | the same applies to IRC discussions; trying out GNU/Linux HOWTOs | Jul 01 19:26 |
| mbuf | most of us are good in our native language, because we speak a lot; so, also try speaking in English; participate in group discussions | Jul 01 19:27 |
| mbuf | don't worry about your accent or grammar | Jul 01 19:27 |
| mbuf | --> #18 | Jul 01 19:27 |
| mbuf | Mentors are usually busy with work during week-days; so, it is good to have a chit-chat with them during the weekends | Jul 01 19:27 |
| mbuf | unless they are not connected to the Internet; or, if you simply blog about it, then it will be noticed | Jul 01 19:28 |
| makghosh | chiks: hey :) | Jul 01 19:28 |
| mbuf | but, it is good to just put in a word or two | Jul 01 19:28 |
| mbuf | a way to sync up with what you have been doing, or if you have any issues | Jul 01 19:29 |
| mbuf | --> #19 | Jul 01 19:29 |
| mbuf | Today is an exception, since, I am taking an hour of my work time, to spend time with you guyz | Jul 01 19:29 |
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| mbuf | weekdays, use e-mail and blogs; IRC can be used on weekends, or if it is critical/urgent | Jul 01 19:29 |
| mbuf | --> #20 | Jul 01 19:30 |
| mbuf | as a technical "engineer" it is important to write detailed reports; when raising a problem, | Jul 01 19:30 |
| mbuf | put screenshots, put logs, put error outputs; give detailed info as much as possible | Jul 01 19:30 |
| mbuf | give step-by-step documentation that anyone can follow to re-create the problem you have | Jul 01 19:31 |
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| mbuf | always give proof for the statements that you make; this is where there is a difference between a layman and an engineer | Jul 01 19:31 |
| mbuf | --> #21 | Jul 01 19:31 |
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| mbuf | You already know this; In most parts of the world, everything runs on time | Jul 01 19:32 |
| mbuf | work, buses, trains, flights, appointments, meetings et. al. | Jul 01 19:32 |
| mbuf | Time lost can never be re-gained, so use it wisely! | Jul 01 19:32 |
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| mbuf | i am not saying you should work all the time; you should also balance work with play; but, just don't spend too much time playing :) | Jul 01 19:33 |
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| mbuf | --> #22 | Jul 01 19:33 |
| mbuf | If you are unable to attend a meeting or a discussion, it is a _must_ to inform the other people that you cannot do so | Jul 01 19:33 |
| mbuf | so, they can get on with it, or do some other work | Jul 01 19:33 |
| mbuf | basically, you shouldn't keep others' waiting; for everyone time is the essence | Jul 01 19:34 |
| mbuf | --> #23 | Jul 01 19:34 |
| mbuf | when chatting, people don't follow the full-stops, semi-colons, or commas, or exclamation marks! | Jul 01 19:34 |
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| mbuf | so it is hard to tell whether you are making a statement or asking a question | Jul 01 19:34 |
| mbuf | "You have a DVD" is different from "You have a DVD?" in chat | Jul 01 19:35 |
| mbuf | so, i was chatting with this student, and he forgot to put a question mark; so I was thinking that he was telling me something | Jul 01 19:36 |
| mbuf | but he was asking questions, for 5 minutes; and i only kept answering "Ok" | Jul 01 19:36 |
| mbuf | --> #24 | Jul 01 19:37 |
| mbuf | Professionalism at work is one of the essentials of Free Software work | Jul 01 19:37 |
| mbuf | --> #25 | Jul 01 19:37 |
| mbuf | Of course, mentors cannot do everything for you :) | Jul 01 19:37 |
| mbuf | You need to do something; if they can do it, why should they give you some work to do? | Jul 01 19:38 |
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| mbuf | It is meant for your learning needs; but, one student started off with abstract, and it went all the way to presentation | Jul 01 19:38 |
| mbuf | of course, i had to refuse due to lack of time | Jul 01 19:38 |
| mbuf | --> #26 | Jul 01 19:38 |
| mbuf | when you start with a project, it is good to start working on smaller tasks | Jul 01 19:39 |
| mbuf | on completion of those, you gain lot of confidence, and it motivates you to do bigger things | Jul 01 19:39 |
| mbuf | yes, you have a steep learning curve, because, we haven't done anything productive 'learning' in our colleges | Jul 01 19:40 |
| mbuf | so, you are bound to stumble, fall, cry, get fed up; but, if you persevere, you will see light at the end of the tunnel! | Jul 01 19:40 |
| mbuf | --> #27 | Jul 01 19:41 |
| mbuf | daily update on blogs is ideal | Jul 01 19:41 |
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| mbuf | but, as we discussed yesterday, it is a way of keeping a check on yourself, that you have to do something to put something on the blog | Jul 01 19:41 |
| mbuf | and also, it is very useful documentation | Jul 01 19:41 |
| mbuf | if you go on a holiday during the weekend, you can just look at your blog post that you did on a Friday, and see where you left off | Jul 01 19:42 |
| mbuf | studying in the night before the exam, doesn't work in the real world -- unfortunately for all! | Jul 01 19:43 |
| mbuf | do daily work, and it will help you reach deadlines | Jul 01 19:43 |
| mbuf | --> #28 | Jul 01 19:43 |
| mbuf | The learning curve is really steep; it is a mighty challenge; either you are in, or you are out :) | Jul 01 19:43 |
| mbuf | --> #29 | Jul 01 19:44 |
| mbuf | Always write as detailed technical reports as possible | Jul 01 19:44 |
| mbuf | --> #30 | Jul 01 19:44 |
| mbuf | So, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the other person; think about what questions he/she will ask you when trying to solve this problem | Jul 01 19:45 |
| mbuf | sometimes things don't get done; take a break; do something else, and a change of mind, will hint you to the solution! | Jul 01 19:45 |
| mbuf | --> #31 | Jul 01 19:45 |
| mbuf | There are very common mistakes that newbies make when reporting a problem | Jul 01 19:46 |
| mbuf | Please avoid. | Jul 01 19:46 |
| mbuf | --> #32 | Jul 01 19:46 |
| mbuf | More documentation to read! | Jul 01 19:46 |
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| mbuf | Most "students" pick a subject of interest, based on the staff -- unfortunately | Jul 01 19:46 |
| mbuf | This should not be the case with you, because you have a world of resources to look into | Jul 01 19:47 |
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| mbuf | You should read more documentation than what is given to you -- that is where your attitude comes into play | Jul 01 19:47 |
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| mbuf | if there is one book for "shell scripting", you explore 3-4 books and see how different authors have expressed their skills; maybe the thoughts don't overlap | Jul 01 19:48 |
| mbuf | if it is repetition, it is good; because, it refreshes your memory! | Jul 01 19:48 |
| mbuf | --> #33 | Jul 01 19:48 |
| mbuf | You can put documentation in a project twiki or in your blog; at the end of the week, you will have so much documentation, that anyone can just read it like a story | Jul 01 19:49 |
| mbuf | of course, you can take only relevant content from your blog and use it for the project documentation | Jul 01 19:49 |
| mbuf | --> #34 | Jul 01 19:49 |
| mbuf | If you have to go from Chennai->Hyderabad->Kolkatta, you have to follow that! | Jul 01 19:50 |
| mbuf | that is how HOWTOs are designed; if you skip any steps in-between, you will end up in the wrong place! | Jul 01 19:50 |
| mbuf | same when answering questions, make sure, you have answered all the questions | Jul 01 19:51 |
| mbuf | yes, there are commands, environment settings, and it looks very cryptic at first sight; but, systems we work are very complex | Jul 01 19:51 |
| mbuf | that is what we get paid for :) | Jul 01 19:51 |
| mbuf | --> #35 | Jul 01 19:51 |
| mbuf | there is saying that "empty vessels make the most noise", and it is very true | Jul 01 19:52 |
| mbuf | with little knowledge and enlightenment, you will become very enthusiastic, that you can easily forget the basics | Jul 01 19:52 |
| mbuf | it is important to be patient, and learn the trade, rather than the tricks of the trade | Jul 01 19:53 |
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| mbuf | so, it is important to consult with your mentor, if in doubt; don't make hasty, irrational decisions | Jul 01 19:53 |
| mbuf | when communicating to team members, it is important to send it to the mailing list, or if sending private e-mail, make sure you CC all team members | Jul 01 19:54 |
| mbuf | if you miss somebody, you will disrupt the group dynamics == they will not trust you anymore | Jul 01 19:54 |
| mbuf | so, keep everyone in the boat in sync; if you have to cross the ocean, everyone in the boat has to be in sync; | Jul 01 19:54 |
| mbuf | you don't want your project to be another Titanic | Jul 01 19:55 |
| mbuf | --> #36 | Jul 01 19:55 |
| mbuf | Yes, always make sure everyone is informed | Jul 01 19:55 |
| mbuf | --> #37 | Jul 01 19:55 |
| mbuf | People have their patience; don't test it too much; | Jul 01 19:56 |
| mbuf | if you are not comfortable with the project, or team members, just leave | Jul 01 19:56 |
| mbuf | it is also not good to keep repeating the same mistakes, again and again; it is unnecessary work for you and for the team | Jul 01 19:56 |
| mbuf | try to learn to accept positive criticism in a proper manner, else ignore and move on in life | Jul 01 19:57 |
| mbuf | someone point or the other you will get involved in heated discussion in mailing lists, where different parties disagree | Jul 01 19:57 |
| mbuf | don't take things to the heart, just ignore and move on; | Jul 01 19:58 |
| mbuf | --> #38 | Jul 01 19:58 |
| mbuf | The other obvious question, "Can my roommate or benchmate or classmate also join the project?" | Jul 01 19:58 |
| mbuf | Team members don't care whether it is your roommate or benchmate or classmate, as long as they can contriibute and have the passion to work; | Jul 01 19:58 |
| Kishan_ | 1 july...mbuf..FS project guidelines,..... | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | * Now talking on #dgplug | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | * Topic for #dgplug is: Welcome to Linux User's Group of Durgapur | Mailing list at http://lists.dgplug.org/listinfo.cgi/users-dgplug.org | Old classes http://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/ | DOWNLOAD THIS http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/i-want-2-do-project-tell-me-wat-2-do.pdf | From 7:00pm mbuf on FS project guidelines | 10:30pm rishi on shell commands | <--CLASS STARTED --> | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | * Topic for #dgplug set by kushal at Tue Jul 01 18:58:01 2008 | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | * amrita (n=amrita@117.201.96.52) has joined #dgplug | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> People mistakenly call the system as "Linux"; we Free Software enthusiasts refer to the system as "GNU/Linux" | Jul 01 19:59 |
| *Subhodip (n=subhodip@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug | Jul 01 19:59 | |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> Open source guys are comfortable with mixing proprietary as well as open source code; Free Software is different from Open Source | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> The word "hacker" is heavily misused in the media; Hackers are programmers who pursue programming as an artistic passion, who are eager to solve challenging problems | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> The people who steal passwords, break down networks, cause DoS attacks are called 'crackers' | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> So, whenever anyone uses the terminology incorrectly, kindly correct them! | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> --> #4 | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> It is very important in society to understand the meaning of 'earn your living' | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> most people try to inherit their parents' property or business, and live on it for life -- without doing much work | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | * sumitc (n=Sumit@59.93.202.240) has joined #dgplug | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> status in society is not measured by how much wealth you have, but, what you have contributed to society | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> so, work is important in life; and a good balance between work and play is essential | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> --> #5 | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | * Debashree (n=Debashre@61.2.164.245) has joined #dgplug | Jul 01 19:59 |
| *kushal removes voice from Kishan_ | Jul 01 19:59 | |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> In the Free Software world, you have to have the eagerness and drive to get information | Jul 01 19:59 |
| mavu_ | wait! | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> Most of the information is already out there; even when you program, you are bound to get stuck with errors; but, ability to hunt on the Internet, with a resolve to solve the problem is important | Jul 01 19:59 |
| Kishan_ | <mbuf> it | Jul 01 20:00 |
| Kishan_ | oops!...sorry!! | Jul 01 20:00 |
| *kushal has kicked Kishan_ from #dgplug (kushal) | Jul 01 20:00 | |
| kushal | let him come back | Jul 01 20:00 |
| mbuf | But, if your roommate or benchmate or classmate leaves in-between the project release cycle, you shouldn't feel dis-heartened! | Jul 01 20:00 |
| mbuf | it is common in projects, for people to move in and out! | Jul 01 20:00 |
| mbuf | --> #39 | Jul 01 20:00 |
| mbuf | People are willing to help you, so you should not ask questions like "How much salary are you getting?" | Jul 01 20:01 |
| mbuf | or, "Where is your house?", "How many siblings do you have?" | Jul 01 20:01 |
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| mbuf | Unless you are really known the person, people need not open up to share their feelings with you | Jul 01 20:01 |
| mbuf | --> #40 | Jul 01 20:02 |
| mbuf | W.r.t. development, writing small code during the early part of the project and submitting them is important | Jul 01 20:02 |
| mbuf | because, people can assess your coding style, logic, license, copyright notices et. al. | Jul 01 20:03 |
| mbuf | it is easier to correct mistakes early, rather than let you become a full-grown programmer, and then it is hard to change | Jul 01 20:03 |
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| mbuf | of course, with great attitude, you can still change; but, why leave it for so long? | Jul 01 20:03 |
| mbuf | commit early and often - that is the principle to be followed; | Jul 01 20:04 |
| mbuf | --> #41 | Jul 01 20:04 |
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| mbuf | Assumptions are bad, never make them; don't say "I thought if I did like this, it will work". | Jul 01 20:04 |
| mbuf | No, it doesn't happen like that in the real world; as engineers, you are expected to reason out why somethings failed, or why it worked! | Jul 01 20:04 |
| mbuf | with Free Software you have the source code, so ability to use it to reason out things is a _must_. | Jul 01 20:05 |
| mbuf | Even when following HOWTOs, try to understand what is happening in the system; | Jul 01 20:05 |
| mbuf | it will greatly help your logical reasoning and your debugging skills | Jul 01 20:05 |
| mbuf | --> #42 | Jul 01 20:05 |
| mbuf | Unfortunately in this country, from what I have seen people are afraid to ask questions; you have to question everything! | Jul 01 20:06 |
| mbuf | Being silent, means you are accepting what other people are saying (except this training session, of course) | Jul 01 20:06 |
| mbuf | The more your aptitude to challenge problems, the more you question, the better the programmer you become, and a great asset to Society. | Jul 01 20:07 |
| mbuf | --> #43 | Jul 01 20:07 |
| mbuf | It is never late to start anything | Jul 01 20:07 |
| mbuf | If you believe that is is truly possible, it is possible; | Jul 01 20:07 |
| mbuf | "Impossible is a word only to be found in the dictionary of fools" | Jul 01 20:07 |
| mbuf | Thanks for your time; this ends my presentation for today. | Jul 01 20:08 |
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| mbuf | i am now open for questions. | Jul 01 20:08 |
| amrita | ! | Jul 01 20:09 |
| deepakBCREC_ | ! | Jul 01 20:09 |
| mbuf | amrita, shoot | Jul 01 20:09 |
| Kishan_ | ! | Jul 01 20:09 |
| susenj | ! | Jul 01 20:09 |
| Stefan^ | ! | Jul 01 20:10 |
| amrita | mbuf, in software world on what basis are we given projects? | Jul 01 20:10 |
| mbuf | amrita, define 'software world'? | Jul 01 20:10 |
| amrita | mbuf, where people uses some technology to produce something innovative | Jul 01 20:11 |
| *mbuf for define, we don't put a question mark at the end, AFAIK. | Jul 01 20:11 | |
| mbuf | amrita, it depends on 'where' means - Industry, Academia, or in the Community | Jul 01 20:12 |
| mbuf | amrita, In the community, you are welcome to participate in any project you like | Jul 01 20:12 |
| amrita | mbuf, industry | Jul 01 20:13 |
| mbuf | amrita, in the Academia, usually the professor assigns project work; in the Industry, you can choose your project, or they assign something for you | Jul 01 20:13 |
| mbuf | amrita, again, this should be taken on a case-by-case basis | Jul 01 20:13 |
| mbuf | amrita, it depends on the individual | Jul 01 20:13 |
| mbuf | amrita, but, in the Free Software community, you don't wait for someone to give you work; that is what I meant by "Hunger for Knowledge" | Jul 01 20:14 |
| amrita | mbuf, if i am not comfortable for the project can i leave in between? | Jul 01 20:14 |
| mbuf | amrita, you should seek out to do projects, to learn; if company is already doing FS work, it is great! | Jul 01 20:14 |
| mbuf | amrita, you have to inform the team members about it, and do a formal "technology transfer" on what you have been working so far | Jul 01 20:14 |
| mbuf | amrita, if you are in the middle of something, it is courteous to finish that work, before you leave | Jul 01 20:15 |
| mbuf | amrita, remember in this community everything is open (including communication), so it should not reflect back on you sometime in the future | Jul 01 20:15 |
| mbuf | deepakBCREC_, shoot! | Jul 01 20:16 |
| amrita | mbuf,thanks | Jul 01 20:16 |
| deepakBCREC_ | what does project documentation means? | Jul 01 20:16 |
| ecntrk | ! | Jul 01 20:16 |
| mbuf | deepakBCREC_, setting up build environment; code API documentation; design documentation; testing methodologies used; sample output/logs; use cases et. al. | Jul 01 20:16 |
| mbuf | Kishan_, shoot! | Jul 01 20:17 |
| Kishan_ | what is "AFAIK" ? | Jul 01 20:17 |
| mbuf | Kishan_, As Far As I Know (you didn't Google for it :) | Jul 01 20:17 |
| mbuf | susenj, shoot! | Jul 01 20:17 |
| Kishan_ | oh...got it .thanks. | Jul 01 20:17 |
| susenj | mbuf,what is DoS attack?? | Jul 01 20:18 |
| techno_freak | :0 | Jul 01 20:18 |
| mbuf | susenj, Denial of Service; ping flood on a server is an example | Jul 01 20:18 |
| mbuf | susenj, you keep pinging the server so it has to take care of your requests, while, it doesn't have time to service other clients, so you are denying service to others' | Jul 01 20:19 |
| mbuf | Stefan^, shoot! | Jul 01 20:19 |
| susenj | ok,thanks<eof> | Jul 01 20:19 |
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| Num_Lock3d | Good evening all :) | Jul 01 20:20 |
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| *Subhodip has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 01 20:20 | |
| kushal | Num_Lock3d, class is going all | Jul 01 20:20 |
| Num_Lock3d | oops sorry | Jul 01 20:20 |
| Num_Lock3d | am I interrupting ? | Jul 01 20:20 |
| rtnpro_ | ! | Jul 01 20:21 |
| kushal | Num_Lock3d, yes | Jul 01 20:21 |
| Num_Lock3d | sorry | Jul 01 20:21 |
| kushal | Num_Lock3d, are you Stefan^ ? | Jul 01 20:21 |
| Num_Lock3d | yes | Jul 01 20:21 |
| Num_Lock3d | my connection timed out | Jul 01 20:21 |
| kushal | then ask your question | Jul 01 20:21 |
| mbuf | Num_Lock3d, shoot your question! | Jul 01 20:21 |
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| rtnpro_ | ! | Jul 01 20:22 |
| mbuf | ecntrk, shoot! | Jul 01 20:22 |
| Num_Lock3d | how can we view thé contents of initrd ? | Jul 01 20:22 |
| ecntrk | mbuf, What are the most essential skills to be a Able FS Programer? | Jul 01 20:22 |
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| mbuf | Num_Lock3d, you need to dd /dev/ramXY, dump the initrd to RAM, and mount it with -o loop | Jul 01 20:23 |
| mbuf | ecntrk, that is too generic a question; | Jul 01 20:23 |
| Stefan_^ | can't we ungzip it ? | Jul 01 20:23 |
| ecntrk | Actually I think i'm good at so called bookish knowledge og C, C++... | Jul 01 20:23 |
| Stefan_^ | I heard that its actually á gzipped image... | Jul 01 20:24 |
| rtnpro_ | ! | Jul 01 20:24 |
| Soumya Stefan^ Stefan_^ Subhodip sumitc susenj | Jul 01 20:24 | |
| ecntrk | But you know, i'm feeling that there got to be more things, I need to brush up.. | Jul 01 20:24 |
| Stefan_^ | ánd initramd is á cpio one | Jul 01 20:24 |
| mbuf | ecntrk, bookish knowledge doesn't sell | Jul 01 20:24 |
| kushal | Stefan^, please try to stay in the class | Jul 01 20:24 |
| mbuf | Stefan^, read: http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/filesystems/ramfs-rootfs-initramfs.txt | Jul 01 20:24 |
| mbuf | ecntrk, there is a lot of difference between theory and practicals | Jul 01 20:25 |
| mbuf | rtnpro_, shoot! | Jul 01 20:25 |
| ecntrk | I now that, mbuf... | Jul 01 20:25 |
| rtnpro_ | How do we take part in debugging? | Jul 01 20:25 |
| ecntrk | I just wanted some specifird answer from you...<eof> | Jul 01 20:25 |
| rtnpro_ | What are the prerequisites? | Jul 01 20:25 |
| rtnpro_ | What are the tools required?<EOF> | Jul 01 20:26 |
| mbuf | rtnpro_, to begin with you can use gdb; but, logical reasoning comes with your interest in solving puzzles | Jul 01 20:26 |
| rtnpro_ | mbuf, what is gdb? | Jul 01 20:26 |
| mbuf | ecntrk, start working on projects, and writing code; can't judget anything based on bookish know-how though | Jul 01 20:27 |
| rtnpro_ | mbuf, Let me do a google | Jul 01 20:27 |
| mbuf | rtnpro_, better :) | Jul 01 20:27 |
| rtnpro_ | mbuf, ok ...Got it...Thanks | Jul 01 20:27 |
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| mbuf | any other questions? | Jul 01 20:28 |
| sumitc | ! | Jul 01 20:28 |
| mbuf | sumitc, shoot! | Jul 01 20:28 |
| ecntrk | Thanks , mbuf<eof> | Jul 01 20:28 |
| sumitc | while doing FS projects, you mentioned about having a mentor | Jul 01 20:28 |
| mbuf | sumitc, not necessarily; it could be a team as well | Jul 01 20:29 |
| sumitc | Why is it important to have a mentor while doing a project? | Jul 01 20:29 |
| sumitc | How exactly can a mentor help? | Jul 01 20:29 |
| mbuf | sumitc, that are part of a project | Jul 01 20:29 |
| mbuf | sumitc, some people like one-to-one correspondence | Jul 01 20:29 |
| mbuf | sumitc, like personal tutoring; but, again, it depends on how much time the Mentor can provide | Jul 01 20:30 |
| mbuf | sumitc, but, I'd prefer people to work in FS team projects, so you get to interact with lot of people | Jul 01 20:31 |
| mbuf | <EOF> | Jul 01 20:31 |
| amrita | mbuf, ! | Jul 01 20:31 |
| sumitc | <eof> | Jul 01 20:31 |
| mbuf | amrita, shoot! | Jul 01 20:31 |
| amrita | mbuf, what are the duties or work of a team leader other than the members? | Jul 01 20:32 |
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| mbuf | amrita, there is no strict hierarcy as such in FS teams; | Jul 01 20:33 |
| mbuf | amrita, usually the biggest *contributor* becomes Maintainer of code, and you have developers who submit code/patch to him/her | Jul 01 20:33 |
| mbuf | amrita, only in corporate, formal structures people do politics with hierarchy | Jul 01 20:34 |
| amrita | mbuf, in industries? | Jul 01 20:34 |
| mbuf | amrita, yes, and it is quite prevalent in India | Jul 01 20:34 |
| mbuf | amrita, in the FS world, technicality is given more credibility, and hence, is valued more | Jul 01 20:34 |
| sumitc | ! | Jul 01 20:35 |
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| mbuf | amrita, so it doesn't matter if you have less Industry experience than others; if you are technically solid in whatever you are working on, you can be the Maintainer/Technical Lead/Architect for the project | Jul 01 20:35 |
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| mbuf | amrita, the Freedom you get in the FS world is what makes these people work towards it! | Jul 01 20:35 |
| mbuf | amrita, <EOF> | Jul 01 20:35 |
| mbuf | sumitc, shoot! | Jul 01 20:35 |
| sumitc | Do you really think what we are taught in colleges are irrelevant when it comes to practical life? | Jul 01 20:35 |
| amrita | mbuf, thanks | Jul 01 20:36 |
| mbuf | sumitc, 100% yes, from my experience | Jul 01 20:36 |
| mbuf | sumitc, even theory is not taught properly, why talk about practicality? | Jul 01 20:37 |
| mbuf | sumitc, read: http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/shakthimaan-paper/shakthimaan-paper.pdf | Jul 01 20:37 |
| mbuf | sumitc, read: http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/shakthimaan-paper/shakthimaan-paper-presentation.pdf | Jul 01 20:37 |
| sumitc | ok, thanks | Jul 01 20:37 |
| sumitc | I needed to know that | Jul 01 20:37 |
| sumitc | <eof> | Jul 01 20:37 |
| mbuf | sumitc, I have never seen anyone argue against it; so I accept that everyone has agreed to it | Jul 01 20:38 |
| Prakhar | ! | Jul 01 20:38 |
| sumitc | that means i need to put in an extra effort to be in tune with the industry/FoSS world, is it? | Jul 01 20:38 |
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| deepakBCREC | deepakBCREC, /nick deepak | Jul 01 20:39 |
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| mbuf | sumitc, yes | Jul 01 20:39 |
| mbuf | Prakhar, shoot! | Jul 01 20:39 |
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| Prakhar | i think this kind of procedure is followed only in India, right? | Jul 01 20:40 |
| mbuf | sumitc, you cannot get back the time whatever you have used so far; so you have to put even more effort to catch up with others | Jul 01 20:40 |
| sumitc | got it, thanks | Jul 01 20:41 |
| mbuf | Prakhar, what procedure? | Jul 01 20:41 |
| sumitc | <eof> | Jul 01 20:41 |
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| Prakhar | the teaching procedure which disables students from entering new avenues | Jul 01 20:41 |
| mbuf | Prakhar, the way I see it is, you take the college/university, staff, your fellow students out of the equation | Jul 01 20:42 |
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| mbuf | Prakhar, if you don't eat food, you are going to starve; why do you expect others to feed you? that is what i meant by "Hunger for knowledge" | Jul 01 20:42 |
| Prakhar | yes, right | Jul 01 20:42 |
| mbuf | Prakhar, if you have the drive, motivation, initiative to use a GNU/Linux system, you can learn whatever you want, from application development, to tools, middleware, operating systems, device drivers and what not! | Jul 01 20:43 |
| mbuf | Prakhar, so, the point I am trying to make is that your future is in your hands; | Jul 01 20:43 |
| Prakhar | right, I'm also an engineering student and I have seen the way subjects are handled. i completely agree with you. | Jul 01 20:43 |
| mbuf | Prakhar, unfortunately, people use others as an excuse | Jul 01 20:43 |
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| mbuf | Prakhar, it doesn't help in the long run because, end of the day, you don't learn anything, it is you who is going to suffer | Jul 01 20:44 |
| mbuf | Prakhar, by 'you' I didn't mean you; I meant "engineering students" | Jul 01 20:44 |
| sumitc | ! | Jul 01 20:44 |
| Prakhar | yes, this is one the favorite topics | Jul 01 20:44 |
| Prakhar | absolutely right | Jul 01 20:44 |
| mbuf | sumitc, shoot! | Jul 01 20:44 |
| Prakhar | thanks | Jul 01 20:44 |
| Prakhar | <eof> | Jul 01 20:44 |
| sumitc | Is there any way I can earn a living by contributing to the FS world? | Jul 01 20:45 |
| mbuf | sumitc, most companies use Free Software; they just like others, don't know it is Free Software | Jul 01 20:45 |
| mbuf | sumitc, but, everyone uses it; they just don't go announcing it, that is all | Jul 01 20:45 |
| amrita | mbuf, ! | Jul 01 20:46 |
| mbuf | sumitc, some companies openly announce, or even sponsor Free Software conferences, as a means of attracting developers, and a way of giving back to the Community | Jul 01 20:46 |
| mbuf | amrita, shoot! | Jul 01 20:46 |
| sumitc | thats good | Jul 01 20:46 |
| sumitc | <eof> | Jul 01 20:46 |
| amrita | mbuf, what is the application of graphics or art in the industries? | Jul 01 20:46 |
| *mbuf these questions, and answers can be put up as FAQ in the dgplug wiki site :) | Jul 01 20:47 | |
| *kushal is talking the charge | Jul 01 20:47 | |
| kushal | * taking | Jul 01 20:47 |
| mbuf | amrita, unfortunately i don't work on those lines; but, there are good Free Software tools that you can use like Gimp, Scribus, Blender, et. al. that you can use | Jul 01 20:47 |
| kushal | but only after the whole course | Jul 01 20:47 |
| mbuf | amrita, BTW, these are very powerful and widely used | Jul 01 20:47 |
| mbuf | amrita, Inkscape as well | Jul 01 20:48 |
| kushal | amrita, are you asking about where they use art/graphics ? | Jul 01 20:48 |
| amrita | kushal, i meant do they have importance very much? | Jul 01 20:49 |
| mbuf | amrita, yes, yes! they are widely used | Jul 01 20:49 |
| mbuf | because there is no single entity that represents these projects, and everyone uses it, people don't bother to advertise it | Jul 01 20:50 |
| amrita | kushal, except the logos or posters | Jul 01 20:50 |
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| mbuf | amrita, there are lot of music/movie-creation software as well for FLOSS | Jul 01 20:51 |
| mbuf | any other questions? | Jul 01 20:51 |
| amrita | mbuf, ok | Jul 01 20:51 |
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| amrita | mbuf, ! | Jul 01 20:52 |
| mbuf | Ok, we will stop here. | Jul 01 20:52 |
| mbuf | amrita, ok, shoot! | Jul 01 20:52 |
| *mbuf appreciates the "Hunger for Knowledge" | Jul 01 20:53 | |
| amrita | everyone from it branch may not be good at programming | Jul 01 20:53 |
| amrita | so what other work they could get? | Jul 01 20:53 |
| mbuf | amrita, who said IT is all about programming? | Jul 01 20:53 |
| amrita | but its given the greater importance | Jul 01 20:54 |
| mbuf | amrita, by whom? | Jul 01 20:54 |
| amrita | not by anyone | Jul 01 20:54 |
| mbuf | amrita, you define what is important to you; you do what you feel like; you work on projects that interest you | Jul 01 20:55 |
| amrita | but our faculty members gives stress on it | Jul 01 20:55 |
| mbuf | amrita, end of the day what does that translate to? | Jul 01 20:56 |
| amrita | sorry "what "means? | Jul 01 20:56 |
| mbuf | amrita, have people asked questions on "Why faculty members have not done research projects?", "Why they haven't attended International conferences"? "What new software they have written?" | Jul 01 20:57 |
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| mbuf | amrita, "What new papers they have published, and where?", "If they don't work in the Industry, why they emphasis on all these?" | Jul 01 20:57 |
| mbuf | amrita, you can count such dedicated people | Jul 01 20:58 |
| mbuf | amrita, the point is, you need to see the bigger picture of the world; | Jul 01 20:58 |
| mbuf | amrita, there is something called OPV (Other Peoples' View); before you come to any conclusion, you have to get opinion from different people | Jul 01 20:59 |
| mbuf | amrita, I suggest you read the presentation and paper that I gave the link to earlier | Jul 01 20:59 |
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| amrita | mbuf, ok | Jul 01 21:00 |
| mbuf | <EOF> | Jul 01 21:00 |
| kushal | Roll Call | Jul 01 21:00 |
| ria | ria das | Jul 01 21:00 |
| Prakhar | Prakhar Agarwal | Jul 01 21:00 |
| aritra | Aritra Bose | Jul 01 21:00 |
| pushkal | Pushkal Srivastava | Jul 01 21:00 |
| sumitc | Sumit Chakraborty | Jul 01 21:01 |
| amrita | amrita mukherjee | Jul 01 21:01 |
| Kishan_ | Kishan Goyal | Jul 01 21:01 |
| mavu_ | satya komaragiri | Jul 01 21:01 |
| TanmayaT | Tanmaya Tewari | Jul 01 21:01 |
| >mbuf<thank you again :) | Jul 01 21:01 | |
| arpita | arpita kapoor | Jul 01 21:01 |
| Debashree | debashree banerjee | Jul 01 21:01 |
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| kushal | anyone else ? | Jul 01 21:02 |
| kushal | <--CLASS OVER--> | Jul 01 21:02 |
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