2008-07-01_mbuf_free_software_project_guidelines.log

kushal<--CLASS STARTED -->Jul 01 18:57
*kushal has changed the topic to: Welcome to Linux User's Group of Durgapur | Mailing list at http://lists.dgplug.org/listinfo.cgi/users-dgplug.org | Old classes http://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/ | DOWNLOAD THIS http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/i-want-2-do-project-tell-me-wat-2-do.pdf | From 7:00pm mbuf on FS project guidelines | 10:30pm rishi on shell commands | <--CLASS STARTED -->Jul 01 18:57
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mbuf--> #2Jul 01 18:57
*kushal gives channel operator status to SoumyaJul 01 18:57
mbufThe views expressed in this presentation are that of my own!Jul 01 18:57
mbufPeople are welcome to agree to disagree; but, these things I have learnt from experienceJul 01 18:58
*mavu is now known as mavu_Jul 01 18:58
mbufso, I believe, it is the methodology of work that will be fruitful for allJul 01 18:58
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mbufAgain, you are welcome to modify, re-distribute, copy this presentation provided you retain my name in the presentationJul 01 18:58
mbuf--> #3Jul 01 18:59
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mbufPeople mistakenly call the system as "Linux"; we Free Software enthusiasts refer to the system as "GNU/Linux"Jul 01 18:59
mbufOpen source guys are comfortable with mixing proprietary as well as open source code; Free Software is different from Open SourceJul 01 19:00
mbufThe word "hacker" is heavily misused in the media; Hackers are programmers who pursue programming as an artistic passion, who are eager to solve challenging problemsJul 01 19:00
mbufThe people who steal passwords, break down networks, cause DoS attacks are called 'crackers'Jul 01 19:00
mbufSo, whenever anyone uses the terminology incorrectly, kindly correct them!Jul 01 19:01
mbuf--> #4Jul 01 19:01
mbufIt is very important in society to understand the meaning of 'earn your living'Jul 01 19:01
mbufmost people try to inherit their parents' property or business, and live on it for life -- without doing much workJul 01 19:02
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mbufstatus in society is not measured by how much wealth you have, but, what you have contributed to societyJul 01 19:02
mbufso, work is important in life; and a good balance between work and play is essentialJul 01 19:02
mbuf--> #5Jul 01 19:02
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mbufIn the Free Software world, you have to have the eagerness and drive to get informationJul 01 19:03
mbufMost of the information is already out there; even when you program, you are bound to get stuck with errors; but, ability to hunt on the Internet, with a resolve to solve the problem is importantJul 01 19:04
mbufit is a contest of "Survival of the Fittest"Jul 01 19:04
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mbufWhen there is hunger for knowledge, you should not feel hungry for food :)Jul 01 19:04
mbufbasically, you should have the 'attitude' to aggressively work on code; and also have the 'aptitude' to solve problemsJul 01 19:05
mbuflogical reasoning in problem solving is a _must_ if you want to become a good developerJul 01 19:05
mbuf--> #6Jul 01 19:05
mbufjust because you have an engineering degree in your hand, it doesn't make you an engineerJul 01 19:06
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mbufjust because you did a course in some technical institute, and you got a certificate, it doesn't make you an engineerJul 01 19:06
mbufjust because you paid money for four years of engineering, it doesn't make you an engineerJul 01 19:06
mbufyou cannot buy knowledge; you have to seek knowledge; unfortunately this educational society has been made into a business model, without imparting much know-how to "students"Jul 01 19:07
mbufyou can hold a ECE degree, and still do CS work; it really doesn't matter in the IndustryJul 01 19:08
mbufall that matters is your ability to work; ability to solve problems; ability to learnJul 01 19:08
mbufUnfortunately, in most Industries, non-technical people review your resumes, and they see degree/certificatesJul 01 19:08
mbufeven then, you need to sustain yourself in the Industry, for which you should really work hard (bureaucracy is an exception)Jul 01 19:09
mbufmost students basically waste their four years of engineering, and "hope" that they can learn well during their job timeJul 01 19:09
mbufyou have to really compete with developers across the world; when you start working with Free Software projects, you interact with people across the worldJul 01 19:10
mbufand you will realize what people of your age are doing, and where you really standJul 01 19:10
mbuf--> #7Jul 01 19:10
mbufAs we discussed in our communication guidelines presentation, "functional English" is essentialJul 01 19:10
mbufyou should have the knack of reading, reading, reading -- HOWTOs on the web, e-mail/IRC instructions, books, FS magazines et. al.Jul 01 19:11
mbufthe more you read, the more you learn; atleast one technical book a week should be your targetJul 01 19:12
mbufthe day you stop reading, you will become stagnant, and you will not be able to keep up the pace with the Industry (and Academia)Jul 01 19:12
mbuf--> #8Jul 01 19:12
mbufWe have covered mailing list guidelines in our discussion yesterday;Jul 01 19:13
mbufas you gain experience, you should learn to strictly follow the guidelinesJul 01 19:13
mbuf--> #9Jul 01 19:13
mbufPeople usually come and ask where can I get projects to work on;Jul 01 19:13
mbufthere are lot of collaborative development sites, where you can create an accountJul 01 19:14
mbufmost projects call for developers with the necessary skillsJul 01 19:14
mbufso you can search for projects of your interests and the skills that they requireJul 01 19:14
mbufyou should always choose projects with an objective in mind, that at the end of the project, I will learn A or B or CJul 01 19:15
mbufnobody knows everything in a project, until they start working on it; so one shouldn't be scared to take challenging projectsJul 01 19:15
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mbufthere are always risks, but, you have nothing to lose; experience is what matters at the endJul 01 19:15
mbuf--> #10Jul 01 19:16
mbufSo, you decided on a project, or you have chosen some Mentor(s) to work withJul 01 19:16
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mbufPeople are not interested only in your coding skill; coding is only 10% of your profileJul 01 19:16
mbufwherever it is, there is more to your personality than the coding skillsJul 01 19:16
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mbufthis community is very sociable; so you also should learn to move aroundJul 01 19:17
mbufyes, with open communication streams, open discussions, people are likely to have difference of opinionsJul 01 19:17
mbufbut, that is common everywhere; so learn to move around, learn to make friends;Jul 01 19:17
mbufwhen writing to a project team, or Mentor, always write about your skills, your area of interest, and something about yourselfJul 01 19:18
mbufthis community is built for the people; and it is not just code!Jul 01 19:18
mbuf--> #11Jul 01 19:18
mbufjust because you have idle time in college, doesn't mean you can demand work from others :)Jul 01 19:19
mbufmost FS developers are working on it because they love what they do;Jul 01 19:19
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mbufso if you are using their time, you have to be little courteous; time is money in this world, and it takes a lot to volunteer to do thingsJul 01 19:20
mbufbut, there is nothing stronger than the heart of a volunteer!Jul 01 19:20
mbuf--> #12Jul 01 19:20
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mbufpeople get hyped with the ideas and the fame of Free/Libre/Open Source, that they decide to do a final year FOSS project, just for the sake of itJul 01 19:21
mbufseriously, it is a waste of your time, the teams' time or your Mentor's timeJul 01 19:21
mbufunless you really have the passion for it, don't attempt itJul 01 19:21
mbuf--> #13Jul 01 19:21
mbufIt is very important to have a discussion with your Mentor before you begin the projectJul 01 19:21
mbufdifferent people have different ways of work; time of work could be differentJul 01 19:22
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mbufcommunication tool could be different; so it is important to sort all these before you start the projectJul 01 19:22
mbuf--> #14Jul 01 19:22
mbufbecause most developers are distributed, communication is vitalJul 01 19:23
mbuf--> #15Jul 01 19:23
mbufwe have discussed the communication guidelines yesterday;Jul 01 19:23
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mbuf--> #16Jul 01 19:23
mbufEnglish is the accepted language for communication in the IndustryJul 01 19:23
mbufI am repeating it again and again, because, it is important! reading and comprehension are important!Jul 01 19:24
mbufnobody cares whether your spoken is good or bad;Jul 01 19:24
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mbufjust like us Europeans native language is not English; but, most Free Software work, AFAIK, is done in Europe;Jul 01 19:24
mbufbecause, they can really read and understand English; nobody cares about spoken EnglishJul 01 19:24
mbuf--> #17Jul 01 19:25
mbufpeople ask me how to improve their English, if it is bad;Jul 01 19:25
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mbuftry to read computer magazines; participating in mailing list discussions -- understanding the conversationsJul 01 19:26
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mbufthe same applies to IRC discussions; trying out GNU/Linux HOWTOsJul 01 19:26
mbufmost of us are good in our native language, because we speak a lot; so, also try speaking in English; participate in group discussionsJul 01 19:27
mbufdon't worry about your accent or grammarJul 01 19:27
mbuf--> #18Jul 01 19:27
mbufMentors are usually busy with work during week-days; so, it is good to have a chit-chat with them during the weekendsJul 01 19:27
mbufunless they are not connected to the Internet; or, if you simply blog about it, then it will be noticedJul 01 19:28
makghoshchiks: hey :)Jul 01 19:28
mbufbut, it is good to just put in a word or twoJul 01 19:28
mbufa way to sync up with what you have been doing, or if you have any issuesJul 01 19:29
mbuf--> #19Jul 01 19:29
mbufToday is an exception, since, I am taking an hour of my work time, to spend time with you guyzJul 01 19:29
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mbufweekdays, use e-mail and blogs; IRC can be used on weekends, or if it is critical/urgentJul 01 19:29
mbuf--> #20Jul 01 19:30
mbufas a technical "engineer" it is important to write detailed reports; when raising a problem,Jul 01 19:30
mbufput screenshots, put logs, put error outputs; give detailed info as much as possibleJul 01 19:30
mbufgive step-by-step documentation that anyone can follow to re-create the problem you haveJul 01 19:31
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mbufalways give proof for the statements that you make; this is where there is a difference between a layman and an engineerJul 01 19:31
mbuf--> #21Jul 01 19:31
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mbufYou already know this; In most parts of the world, everything runs on timeJul 01 19:32
mbufwork, buses, trains, flights, appointments, meetings et. al.Jul 01 19:32
mbufTime lost can never be re-gained, so use it wisely!Jul 01 19:32
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mbufi am not saying you should work all the time; you should also balance work with play; but, just don't spend too much time playing :)Jul 01 19:33
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mbuf--> #22Jul 01 19:33
mbufIf you are unable to attend a meeting or a discussion, it is a _must_ to inform the other people that you cannot do soJul 01 19:33
mbufso, they can get on with it, or do some other workJul 01 19:33
mbufbasically, you shouldn't keep others' waiting; for everyone time is the essenceJul 01 19:34
mbuf--> #23Jul 01 19:34
mbufwhen chatting, people don't follow the full-stops, semi-colons, or commas, or exclamation marks!Jul 01 19:34
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mbufso it is hard to tell whether you are making a statement or asking a questionJul 01 19:34
mbuf"You have a DVD" is different from "You have a DVD?" in chatJul 01 19:35
mbufso, i was chatting with this student, and he forgot to put a question mark; so I was thinking that he was telling me somethingJul 01 19:36
mbufbut he was asking questions, for 5 minutes; and i only kept answering "Ok"Jul 01 19:36
mbuf--> #24Jul 01 19:37
mbufProfessionalism at work is one of the essentials of Free Software workJul 01 19:37
mbuf--> #25Jul 01 19:37
mbufOf course, mentors cannot do everything for you :)Jul 01 19:37
mbufYou need to do something; if they can do it, why should they give you some work to do?Jul 01 19:38
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mbufIt is meant for your learning needs; but, one student started off with abstract, and it went all the way to presentationJul 01 19:38
mbufof course, i had to refuse due to lack of timeJul 01 19:38
mbuf--> #26Jul 01 19:38
mbufwhen you start with a project, it is good to start working on smaller tasksJul 01 19:39
mbufon completion of those, you gain lot of confidence, and it motivates you to do bigger thingsJul 01 19:39
mbufyes, you have a steep learning curve, because, we haven't done anything productive 'learning' in our collegesJul 01 19:40
mbufso, you are bound to stumble, fall, cry, get fed up; but, if you persevere, you will see light at the end of the tunnel!Jul 01 19:40
mbuf--> #27Jul 01 19:41
mbufdaily update on blogs is idealJul 01 19:41
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mbufbut, as we discussed yesterday, it is a way of keeping a check on yourself, that you have to do something to put something on the blogJul 01 19:41
mbufand also, it is very useful documentationJul 01 19:41
mbufif you go on a holiday during the weekend, you can just look at your blog post that you did on a Friday, and see where you left offJul 01 19:42
mbufstudying in the night before the exam, doesn't work in the real world -- unfortunately for all!Jul 01 19:43
mbufdo daily work, and it will help you reach deadlinesJul 01 19:43
mbuf--> #28Jul 01 19:43
mbufThe learning curve is really steep; it is a mighty challenge; either you are in, or you are out :)Jul 01 19:43
mbuf--> #29Jul 01 19:44
mbufAlways write as detailed technical reports as possibleJul 01 19:44
mbuf--> #30Jul 01 19:44
mbufSo, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the other person; think about what questions he/she will ask you when trying to solve this problemJul 01 19:45
mbufsometimes things don't get done; take a break; do something else, and a change of mind, will hint you to the solution!Jul 01 19:45
mbuf--> #31Jul 01 19:45
mbufThere are very common mistakes that newbies make when reporting a problemJul 01 19:46
mbufPlease avoid.Jul 01 19:46
mbuf--> #32Jul 01 19:46
mbufMore documentation to read!Jul 01 19:46
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mbufMost "students" pick a subject of interest, based on the staff -- unfortunatelyJul 01 19:46
mbufThis should not be the case with you, because you have a world of resources to look intoJul 01 19:47
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mbufYou should read more documentation than what is given to you -- that is where your attitude comes into playJul 01 19:47
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mbufif there is one book for "shell scripting", you explore 3-4 books and see how different authors have expressed their skills; maybe the thoughts don't overlapJul 01 19:48
mbufif it is repetition, it is good; because, it refreshes your memory!Jul 01 19:48
mbuf--> #33Jul 01 19:48
mbufYou can put documentation in a project twiki or in your blog; at the end of the week, you will have so much documentation, that anyone can just read it like a storyJul 01 19:49
mbufof course, you can take only relevant content from your blog and use it for the project documentationJul 01 19:49
mbuf--> #34Jul 01 19:49
mbufIf you have to go from Chennai->Hyderabad->Kolkatta, you have to follow that!Jul 01 19:50
mbufthat is how HOWTOs are designed; if you skip any steps in-between, you will end up in the wrong place!Jul 01 19:50
mbufsame when answering questions, make sure, you have answered all the questionsJul 01 19:51
mbufyes, there are commands, environment settings, and it looks very cryptic at first sight; but, systems we work are very complexJul 01 19:51
mbufthat is what we get paid for :)Jul 01 19:51
mbuf--> #35Jul 01 19:51
mbufthere is saying that "empty vessels make the most noise", and it is very trueJul 01 19:52
mbufwith little knowledge and enlightenment, you will become very enthusiastic, that you can easily forget the basicsJul 01 19:52
mbufit is important to be patient, and learn the trade, rather than the tricks of the tradeJul 01 19:53
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mbufso, it is important to consult with your mentor, if in doubt; don't make hasty, irrational decisionsJul 01 19:53
mbufwhen communicating to team members, it is important to send it to the mailing list, or if sending private e-mail, make sure you CC all team membersJul 01 19:54
mbufif you miss somebody, you will disrupt the group dynamics == they will not trust you anymoreJul 01 19:54
mbufso, keep everyone in the boat in sync; if you have to cross the ocean, everyone in the boat has to be in sync;Jul 01 19:54
mbufyou don't want your project to be another TitanicJul 01 19:55
mbuf--> #36Jul 01 19:55
mbufYes, always make sure everyone is informedJul 01 19:55
mbuf--> #37Jul 01 19:55
mbufPeople have their patience; don't test it too much;Jul 01 19:56
mbufif you are not comfortable with the project, or team members, just leaveJul 01 19:56
mbufit is also not good to keep repeating the same mistakes, again and again; it is unnecessary work for you and for the teamJul 01 19:56
mbuftry to learn to accept positive criticism in a proper manner, else ignore and move on in lifeJul 01 19:57
mbufsomeone point or the other you will get involved in heated discussion in mailing lists, where different parties disagreeJul 01 19:57
mbufdon't take things to the heart, just ignore and move on;Jul 01 19:58
mbuf--> #38Jul 01 19:58
mbufThe other obvious question, "Can my roommate or benchmate or classmate also join the project?"Jul 01 19:58
mbufTeam members don't care whether it is your roommate or benchmate or classmate, as long as they can contriibute and have the passion to work;Jul 01 19:58
Kishan_ 1 july...mbuf..FS project guidelines,.....Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_* Now talking on #dgplugJul 01 19:59
Kishan_* Topic for #dgplug is:  Welcome to Linux User's Group of Durgapur | Mailing list at http://lists.dgplug.org/listinfo.cgi/users-dgplug.org | Old classes http://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/ | DOWNLOAD THIS http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/i-want-2-do-project-tell-me-wat-2-do.pdf | From 7:00pm mbuf on FS project guidelines | 10:30pm rishi on shell commands | <--CLASS STARTED -->Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_* Topic for #dgplug set by kushal at Tue Jul 01 18:58:01 2008Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_* amrita (n=amrita@117.201.96.52) has joined #dgplugJul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> People mistakenly call the system as "Linux"; we Free Software enthusiasts refer to the system as "GNU/Linux"Jul 01 19:59
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Kishan_<mbuf> Open source guys are comfortable with mixing proprietary as well as open source code; Free Software is different from Open SourceJul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> The word "hacker" is heavily misused in the media; Hackers are programmers who pursue programming as an artistic passion, who are eager to solve challenging problemsJul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> The people who steal passwords, break down networks, cause DoS attacks are called 'crackers'Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> So, whenever anyone uses the terminology incorrectly, kindly correct them!Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> --> #4Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> It is very important in society to understand the meaning of 'earn your living'Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> most people try to inherit their parents' property or business, and live on it for life -- without doing much workJul 01 19:59
Kishan_* sumitc (n=Sumit@59.93.202.240) has joined #dgplugJul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> status in society is not measured by how much wealth you have, but, what you have contributed to societyJul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> so, work is important in life; and a good balance between work and play is essentialJul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> --> #5Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_* Debashree (n=Debashre@61.2.164.245) has joined #dgplugJul 01 19:59
*kushal removes voice from Kishan_Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> In the Free Software world, you have to have the eagerness and drive to get informationJul 01 19:59
mavu_wait!Jul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> Most of the information is already out there; even when you program, you are bound to get stuck with errors; but, ability to hunt on the Internet, with a resolve to solve the problem is importantJul 01 19:59
Kishan_<mbuf> itJul 01 20:00
Kishan_oops!...sorry!!Jul 01 20:00
*kushal has kicked Kishan_ from #dgplug (kushal)Jul 01 20:00
kushallet him come back Jul 01 20:00
mbufBut, if your roommate or benchmate or classmate leaves in-between the project release cycle, you shouldn't feel dis-heartened!Jul 01 20:00
mbufit is common in projects, for people to move in and out!Jul 01 20:00
mbuf--> #39Jul 01 20:00
mbufPeople are willing to help you, so you should not ask questions like "How much salary are you getting?"Jul 01 20:01
mbufor, "Where is your house?", "How many siblings do you have?"Jul 01 20:01
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mbufUnless you are really known the person, people need not open up to share their feelings with youJul 01 20:01
mbuf--> #40Jul 01 20:02
mbufW.r.t. development, writing small code during the early part of the project and submitting them is importantJul 01 20:02
mbufbecause, people can assess your coding style, logic, license, copyright notices et. al.Jul 01 20:03
mbufit is easier to correct mistakes early, rather than let you become a full-grown programmer, and then it is hard to changeJul 01 20:03
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mbufof course, with great attitude, you can still change; but, why leave it for so long?Jul 01 20:03
mbufcommit early and often - that is the principle to be followed;Jul 01 20:04
mbuf--> #41Jul 01 20:04
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mbufAssumptions are bad, never make them; don't say "I thought if I did like this, it will work".Jul 01 20:04
mbufNo, it doesn't happen like that in the real world; as engineers, you are expected to reason out why somethings failed, or why it worked!Jul 01 20:04
mbufwith Free Software you have the source code, so ability to use it to reason out things is a _must_.Jul 01 20:05
mbufEven when following HOWTOs, try to understand what is happening in the system;Jul 01 20:05
mbufit will greatly help your logical reasoning and your debugging skillsJul 01 20:05
mbuf--> #42Jul 01 20:05
mbufUnfortunately in this country, from what I have seen people are afraid to ask questions; you have to question everything!Jul 01 20:06
mbufBeing silent, means you are accepting what other people are saying (except this training session, of course)Jul 01 20:06
mbufThe more your aptitude to challenge problems, the more you question, the better the programmer you become, and a great asset to Society.Jul 01 20:07
mbuf--> #43Jul 01 20:07
mbufIt is never late to start anythingJul 01 20:07
mbufIf you believe that is is truly possible, it is possible;Jul 01 20:07
mbuf"Impossible is a word only to be found in the dictionary of fools"Jul 01 20:07
mbufThanks for your time; this ends my presentation for today.Jul 01 20:08
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mbufi am now open for questions.Jul 01 20:08
amrita!Jul 01 20:09
deepakBCREC_!Jul 01 20:09
mbufamrita, shootJul 01 20:09
Kishan_!Jul 01 20:09
susenj!Jul 01 20:09
Stefan^!Jul 01 20:10
amritambuf, in software world on what basis are we given projects?Jul 01 20:10
mbufamrita, define 'software world'?Jul 01 20:10
amritambuf, where people uses some technology to produce something innovativeJul 01 20:11
*mbuf for define, we don't put a question mark at the end, AFAIK.Jul 01 20:11
mbufamrita, it depends on 'where' means - Industry, Academia, or in the CommunityJul 01 20:12
mbufamrita, In the community, you are welcome to participate in any project you likeJul 01 20:12
amritambuf, industryJul 01 20:13
mbufamrita, in the Academia, usually the professor assigns project work; in the Industry, you can choose your project, or they assign something for youJul 01 20:13
mbufamrita, again, this should be taken on a case-by-case basisJul 01 20:13
mbufamrita, it depends on the individualJul 01 20:13
mbufamrita, but, in the Free Software community, you don't wait for someone to give you work; that is what I meant by "Hunger for Knowledge"Jul 01 20:14
amritambuf, if i am not comfortable for the project can i leave in between?Jul 01 20:14
mbufamrita, you should seek out to do projects, to learn; if company is already doing FS work, it is great!Jul 01 20:14
mbufamrita, you have to inform the team members about it, and do a formal "technology transfer" on what you have been working so farJul 01 20:14
mbufamrita, if you are in the middle of something, it is courteous to finish that work, before you leaveJul 01 20:15
mbufamrita, remember in this community everything is open (including communication), so it should not reflect back on you sometime in the futureJul 01 20:15
mbufdeepakBCREC_, shoot!Jul 01 20:16
amritambuf,thanksJul 01 20:16
deepakBCREC_what does project documentation means?Jul 01 20:16
ecntrk!Jul 01 20:16
mbufdeepakBCREC_, setting up build environment; code API documentation; design documentation; testing methodologies used; sample output/logs; use cases et. al.Jul 01 20:16
mbufKishan_, shoot!Jul 01 20:17
Kishan_what is "AFAIK" ?Jul 01 20:17
mbufKishan_, As Far As I Know (you didn't Google for it :)Jul 01 20:17
mbufsusenj, shoot!Jul 01 20:17
Kishan_oh...got it .thanks.Jul 01 20:17
susenjmbuf,what is DoS attack??Jul 01 20:18
techno_freak:0Jul 01 20:18
mbufsusenj, Denial of Service; ping flood on a server is an exampleJul 01 20:18
mbufsusenj, you keep pinging the server so it has to take care of your requests, while, it doesn't have time to service other clients, so you are denying service to others'Jul 01 20:19
mbufStefan^, shoot!Jul 01 20:19
susenjok,thanks<eof>Jul 01 20:19
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Num_Lock3dGood evening all :)Jul 01 20:20
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kushalNum_Lock3d, class is going all Jul 01 20:20
Num_Lock3doops sorryJul 01 20:20
Num_Lock3dam I interrupting ?Jul 01 20:20
rtnpro_!Jul 01 20:21
kushalNum_Lock3d, yesJul 01 20:21
Num_Lock3dsorryJul 01 20:21
kushalNum_Lock3d, are you Stefan^ ?Jul 01 20:21
Num_Lock3dyesJul 01 20:21
Num_Lock3dmy connection timed outJul 01 20:21
kushalthen ask your question Jul 01 20:21
mbufNum_Lock3d, shoot your question!Jul 01 20:21
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rtnpro_!Jul 01 20:22
mbufecntrk, shoot!Jul 01 20:22
Num_Lock3dhow can we view thé contents of initrd ?Jul 01 20:22
ecntrkmbuf, What are the most essential skills to be a Able FS Programer?Jul 01 20:22
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*Num_Lock3d is now known as Stefan_^Jul 01 20:23
mbufNum_Lock3d, you need to dd /dev/ramXY, dump the initrd to RAM, and mount it with -o loopJul 01 20:23
mbufecntrk, that is too generic a question;Jul 01 20:23
Stefan_^can't we ungzip it ?Jul 01 20:23
ecntrkActually I think i'm good at so called bookish knowledge og C, C++...Jul 01 20:23
Stefan_^I heard that its actually á gzipped image...Jul 01 20:24
rtnpro_!Jul 01 20:24
Soumya Stefan^ Stefan_^ Subhodip sumitc susenj Jul 01 20:24
ecntrkBut you know, i'm feeling that there got to be more things, I need to brush up..Jul 01 20:24
Stefan_^ánd initramd is á cpio oneJul 01 20:24
mbufecntrk, bookish knowledge doesn't sellJul 01 20:24
kushalStefan^, please try to stay in the class Jul 01 20:24
mbufStefan^, read: http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/filesystems/ramfs-rootfs-initramfs.txtJul 01 20:24
mbufecntrk, there is a lot of difference between theory and practicalsJul 01 20:25
mbufrtnpro_, shoot!Jul 01 20:25
ecntrkI now that, mbuf...Jul 01 20:25
rtnpro_How do we take part in debugging?Jul 01 20:25
ecntrkI just wanted some specifird answer from you...<eof>Jul 01 20:25
rtnpro_What are the prerequisites?Jul 01 20:25
rtnpro_What are the tools required?<EOF>Jul 01 20:26
mbufrtnpro_, to begin with you can use gdb; but,  logical reasoning comes with your interest in solving puzzlesJul 01 20:26
rtnpro_mbuf, what is gdb?Jul 01 20:26
mbufecntrk, start working on projects, and writing code; can't judget anything based on bookish know-how thoughJul 01 20:27
rtnpro_mbuf, Let me do a googleJul 01 20:27
mbufrtnpro_, better :)Jul 01 20:27
rtnpro_mbuf, ok ...Got it...ThanksJul 01 20:27
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mbufany other questions?Jul 01 20:28
sumitc!Jul 01 20:28
mbufsumitc, shoot!Jul 01 20:28
ecntrkThanks , mbuf<eof>Jul 01 20:28
sumitcwhile doing FS projects, you mentioned about having a mentorJul 01 20:28
mbufsumitc, not necessarily; it could be a team as wellJul 01 20:29
sumitcWhy is it important to have a mentor while doing a project?Jul 01 20:29
sumitcHow exactly can a mentor help?Jul 01 20:29
mbufsumitc, that are part of a projectJul 01 20:29
mbufsumitc, some people like one-to-one correspondenceJul 01 20:29
mbufsumitc, like personal tutoring; but, again, it depends on how much time the Mentor can provideJul 01 20:30
mbufsumitc, but, I'd prefer people to work in FS team projects, so you get to interact with lot of peopleJul 01 20:31
mbuf<EOF>Jul 01 20:31
amritambuf, !Jul 01 20:31
sumitc<eof>Jul 01 20:31
mbufamrita, shoot!Jul 01 20:31
amritambuf, what are the duties or work of a team leader other than the members?Jul 01 20:32
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mbufamrita, there is no strict hierarcy as such in FS teams;Jul 01 20:33
mbufamrita, usually the biggest *contributor* becomes Maintainer of code, and you have developers who submit code/patch to him/herJul 01 20:33
mbufamrita, only in corporate, formal structures people do politics with hierarchyJul 01 20:34
amritambuf, in industries?Jul 01 20:34
mbufamrita, yes, and it is quite prevalent in IndiaJul 01 20:34
mbufamrita, in the FS world, technicality is given more credibility, and hence, is valued moreJul 01 20:34
sumitc!Jul 01 20:35
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mbufamrita, so it doesn't matter if you have less Industry experience than others; if you are technically solid in whatever you are working on, you can be the Maintainer/Technical Lead/Architect for the projectJul 01 20:35
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mbufamrita, the Freedom you get in the FS world is what makes these people work towards it!Jul 01 20:35
mbufamrita, <EOF>Jul 01 20:35
mbufsumitc, shoot!Jul 01 20:35
sumitcDo you really think what we are taught in colleges are irrelevant when it comes to practical life?Jul 01 20:35
amritambuf, thanksJul 01 20:36
mbufsumitc, 100% yes, from my experienceJul 01 20:36
mbufsumitc, even theory is not taught properly, why talk about practicality?Jul 01 20:37
mbufsumitc, read: http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/shakthimaan-paper/shakthimaan-paper.pdfJul 01 20:37
mbufsumitc, read: http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/shakthimaan-paper/shakthimaan-paper-presentation.pdfJul 01 20:37
sumitcok, thanksJul 01 20:37
sumitcI needed to know thatJul 01 20:37
sumitc<eof>Jul 01 20:37
mbufsumitc, I have never seen anyone argue against it; so I accept that everyone has agreed to itJul 01 20:38
Prakhar!Jul 01 20:38
sumitcthat means i need to put in an extra effort to be in tune with the industry/FoSS world, is it?Jul 01 20:38
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deepakBCRECdeepakBCREC, /nick deepakJul 01 20:39
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mbufsumitc, yesJul 01 20:39
mbufPrakhar, shoot!Jul 01 20:39
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Prakhari think this kind of procedure is followed only in India, right?Jul 01 20:40
mbufsumitc, you cannot get back the time whatever you have used so far; so you have to put even more effort to catch up with othersJul 01 20:40
sumitcgot it, thanksJul 01 20:41
mbufPrakhar, what procedure?Jul 01 20:41
sumitc<eof>Jul 01 20:41
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Prakharthe teaching procedure which disables students from entering new avenuesJul 01 20:41
mbufPrakhar, the way I see it is, you take the college/university, staff, your fellow students out of the equationJul 01 20:42
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mbufPrakhar, if you don't eat food, you are going to starve; why do you expect others to feed you? that is what i meant by "Hunger for knowledge"Jul 01 20:42
Prakharyes, rightJul 01 20:42
mbufPrakhar, if you have the drive, motivation, initiative to use a GNU/Linux system, you can learn whatever you want, from application development, to tools, middleware, operating systems, device drivers and what not!Jul 01 20:43
mbufPrakhar, so, the point I am trying to make is that your future is in your hands;Jul 01 20:43
Prakharright, I'm also an engineering student and I have seen the way subjects are handled. i completely agree with you.Jul 01 20:43
mbufPrakhar, unfortunately, people use others as an excuseJul 01 20:43
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mbufPrakhar, it doesn't help in the long run because, end of the day, you don't learn anything, it is you who is going to sufferJul 01 20:44
mbufPrakhar, by 'you' I didn't mean you; I meant "engineering students"Jul 01 20:44
sumitc!Jul 01 20:44
Prakharyes, this is one the favorite topicsJul 01 20:44
Prakharabsolutely rightJul 01 20:44
mbufsumitc, shoot!Jul 01 20:44
PrakharthanksJul 01 20:44
Prakhar<eof>Jul 01 20:44
sumitcIs there any way I can earn a living by contributing to the FS world?Jul 01 20:45
mbufsumitc, most companies use Free Software; they just like others, don't know it is Free SoftwareJul 01 20:45
mbufsumitc, but, everyone uses it; they just don't go announcing it, that is allJul 01 20:45
amritambuf, !Jul 01 20:46
mbufsumitc, some companies openly announce, or even sponsor Free Software conferences, as a means of attracting developers, and a way of giving back to the CommunityJul 01 20:46
mbufamrita, shoot!Jul 01 20:46
sumitcthats goodJul 01 20:46
sumitc<eof>Jul 01 20:46
amritambuf, what is the application of graphics or art in the industries?Jul 01 20:46
*mbuf these questions, and answers can be put up as FAQ in the dgplug wiki site :)Jul 01 20:47
*kushal is talking the charge Jul 01 20:47
kushal* taking Jul 01 20:47
mbufamrita, unfortunately i don't work on those lines; but, there are good Free Software tools that you can use like Gimp, Scribus, Blender, et. al. that you can useJul 01 20:47
kushalbut only after the whole course Jul 01 20:47
mbufamrita, BTW, these are very powerful and widely usedJul 01 20:47
mbufamrita, Inkscape as wellJul 01 20:48
kushalamrita, are you asking about where they use art/graphics ?Jul 01 20:48
amritakushal, i meant do they have importance very much?Jul 01 20:49
mbufamrita, yes, yes! they are widely usedJul 01 20:49
mbufbecause there is no single entity that represents these projects, and everyone uses it, people don't bother to advertise itJul 01 20:50
amritakushal, except the logos or postersJul 01 20:50
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mbufamrita, there are lot of music/movie-creation software as well for FLOSSJul 01 20:51
mbufany other questions?Jul 01 20:51
amritambuf, okJul 01 20:51
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amritambuf, !Jul 01 20:52
mbufOk, we will stop here.Jul 01 20:52
mbufamrita, ok, shoot!Jul 01 20:52
*mbuf appreciates the "Hunger for Knowledge"Jul 01 20:53
amritaeveryone from it branch may not be good at programmingJul 01 20:53
amritaso what other work they could get?Jul 01 20:53
mbufamrita, who said IT is all about programming?Jul 01 20:53
amritabut its given the greater importanceJul 01 20:54
mbufamrita, by whom?Jul 01 20:54
amritanot by anyoneJul 01 20:54
mbufamrita, you define what is important to you; you do what you feel like; you work on projects that interest youJul 01 20:55
amritabut our faculty members gives stress on itJul 01 20:55
mbufamrita, end of the day what does that translate to?Jul 01 20:56
amritasorry "what "means?Jul 01 20:56
mbufamrita, have people asked questions on "Why faculty members have not done research projects?", "Why they haven't attended International conferences"? "What new software they have written?"Jul 01 20:57
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mbufamrita, "What new papers they have published, and where?", "If they don't work in the Industry, why they emphasis on all these?"Jul 01 20:57
mbufamrita, you can count such dedicated peopleJul 01 20:58
mbufamrita, the point is, you need to see the bigger picture of the world;Jul 01 20:58
mbufamrita, there is something called OPV (Other Peoples' View); before you come to any conclusion, you have to get opinion from different peopleJul 01 20:59
mbufamrita, I suggest you read the presentation and paper that I gave the link to earlierJul 01 20:59
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amritambuf, okJul 01 21:00
mbuf<EOF>Jul 01 21:00
kushalRoll CallJul 01 21:00
riaria dasJul 01 21:00
PrakharPrakhar AgarwalJul 01 21:00
aritraAritra BoseJul 01 21:00
pushkalPushkal SrivastavaJul 01 21:00
sumitcSumit ChakrabortyJul 01 21:01
amritaamrita mukherjeeJul 01 21:01
Kishan_Kishan GoyalJul 01 21:01
mavu_satya komaragiriJul 01 21:01
TanmayaTTanmaya TewariJul 01 21:01
>mbuf<thank you again :)Jul 01 21:01
arpitaarpita kapoorJul 01 21:01
Debashreedebashree banerjeeJul 01 21:01
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kushalanyone else ?Jul 01 21:02
kushal<--CLASS OVER-->Jul 01 21:02

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