| *kushal has changed the topic to: Welcome to Linux User's Group of Durgapur | Mailing list at http://lists.dgplug.org/listinfo.cgi/users-dgplug.org | Old classes http://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/ | 7pm mbuf on Code cross-referencing tools | <-- CLASS STARTED --> | Jul 03 19:11 | |
| mbuf | I don't have any presentation slides, but, we have some interesting points to ponder | Jul 03 19:11 |
|---|---|---|
| sumitc | ! | Jul 03 19:12 |
| mbuf | When I type "START" on a separate line, I would like each one of you, to enter your favorite ice cream; when I say "STOP", everyone stops, and I continue sharing my thoughts | Jul 03 19:12 |
| mbuf | sumitc, shoot! | Jul 03 19:12 |
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| sumitc | what does Code cross-referencing mean? | Jul 03 19:12 |
| mbuf | sumitc, we shall get to that | Jul 03 19:12 |
| sumitc | ok | Jul 03 19:12 |
| mbuf | START | Jul 03 19:12 |
| sumitc | <eof> | Jul 03 19:12 |
| techno_freak | Casatta | Jul 03 19:12 |
| mavu | Vanilla | Jul 03 19:13 |
| Kishan | black currant | Jul 03 19:13 |
| bose_aritra | butter scotch | Jul 03 19:13 |
| rtnpro | Butter Scotch | Jul 03 19:13 |
| _roshan | vanila | Jul 03 19:13 |
| amrita | kesar pista | Jul 03 19:13 |
| sumitc | Butterscotch | Jul 03 19:13 |
| ria | vanilla | Jul 03 19:13 |
| Arpita | sundae | Jul 03 19:14 |
| Debashree | strawberry | Jul 03 19:14 |
| *kushal gives channel operator status to techno_freak | Jul 03 19:14 | |
| susenj_ | vanilla | Jul 03 19:14 |
| mbuf | STOP | Jul 03 19:15 |
| mbuf | as you can see, we have different people in the room who have different tastes | Jul 03 19:15 |
| mbuf | it is not fair to make all of you to eat only 'vanilla' or 'butter scotch' | Jul 03 19:15 |
| mbuf | Similarly, there are different tools available for code browsing, referencing | Jul 03 19:16 |
| mbuf | you try out each of these tools, and use the one that you like; | Jul 03 19:16 |
| mbuf | with Free Software and GPL, you enjoy the freedom and choice of choosing whichever tools you like | Jul 03 19:17 |
| mbuf | code referencing is a means of browsing code segments -- could be location of variable/function declarations; where they are referenced/used et. al. | Jul 03 19:17 |
| mbuf | when I now say START on a separate line, I would like you to enter the text editor or IDE that you use for writing programs | Jul 03 19:18 |
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| mbuf | of course, when I say STOP, I resume the talking | Jul 03 19:18 |
| mbuf | START | Jul 03 19:18 |
| techno_freak | Emacs | Jul 03 19:18 |
| rtnpro | vi | Jul 03 19:18 |
| sumitc | vim | Jul 03 19:18 |
| susenj_ | gedit | Jul 03 19:18 |
| amrita | vi | Jul 03 19:18 |
| bose_aritra | vim | Jul 03 19:19 |
| Debashree | vi | Jul 03 19:19 |
| ria | vim | Jul 03 19:19 |
| Arpita | vi | Jul 03 19:19 |
| mbuf | Emacs | Jul 03 19:19 |
| mbuf | STOP | Jul 03 19:21 |
| mavu | gedit :| and eclipse | Jul 03 19:21 |
| mbuf | ok, as we say most of them prefer either 'vanilla' or 'butter scotch' | Jul 03 19:21 |
| mbuf | which is which, you decide later :) | Jul 03 19:21 |
| mbuf | The point I am trying to get to is, again the freedom of editor choice that you get to use with programming | Jul 03 19:22 |
| mbuf | These editors have integration with tools that aid in code browsing/referencing | Jul 03 19:22 |
| mbuf | or, you can use external tools | Jul 03 19:22 |
| mbuf | I prefer people to use any buffer editor (vim/GNU Emacs), simply because, you can work with these without the mouse | Jul 03 19:23 |
| mbuf | A good programmer whose thoughts flow like beautiful poetry, should not worry much about the environment | Jul 03 19:23 |
| mbuf | When people start using the mouse, their hands move away from the keyboard; and if you don't know typing, you really find it hard to put them back in place -- trust me | Jul 03 19:23 |
| mbuf | most keyboards have a small hinge in "F" and "J" keys, as a marker to place your index fingers | Jul 03 19:24 |
| mbuf | you may not have realized them, until now :) | Jul 03 19:24 |
| mbuf | These buffer editors work directly with RAM, and hence, working with them is really fast | Jul 03 19:24 |
| mbuf | They also have mouse bindings, so if you'd like you can use the GUI | Jul 03 19:25 |
| mbuf | Thirdly, if you are working on a remote server, you may not have a fancy bandwidth, and if you want to edit files, these buffer editors are really handy! | Jul 03 19:25 |
| mbuf | So, you may wonder why is this guy talking so much about these editors and not discussing about code referencing yet | Jul 03 19:26 |
| mbuf | BTW, my favorite ice-cream is chocolate :) | Jul 03 19:26 |
| mbuf | I am getting to that | Jul 03 19:26 |
| mbuf | Which editor you use, determines your comfort nature and the tools you can use with them | Jul 03 19:27 |
| mbuf | Of course, there are external tools available; but, most people like to have them integrated; YMMV | Jul 03 19:27 |
| mbuf | Sometimes in projects, you may have to use IDEs like Anjuta/Eclipse; if you have to use them, you really have to use them | Jul 03 19:27 |
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| mbuf | These IDEs have 'tooltip' or tab completion features; | Jul 03 19:28 |
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| mbuf | If you click on a function, it shows the parameters to be passed to the function, syntax etc. | Jul 03 19:28 |
| mbuf | some people like these; tab completion fills up the function name for you; | Jul 03 19:28 |
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| mbuf | IDEs also have 'search' feature where you can search for locations where the variable/functions are used | Jul 03 19:29 |
| mbuf | or where they are declared | Jul 03 19:29 |
| mbuf | Or, what I often use is simple "grep" | Jul 03 19:29 |
| mbuf | grep -r "variable/function" . | Jul 03 19:29 |
| mbuf | It will search all the .c and .h files, and displays the entries; fast, elegant and efficient | Jul 03 19:30 |
| mbuf | or, if the code is huge, and you really want to easily move across code; you can use ctags with vim, or etags with GNU Emacs | Jul 03 19:30 |
| mbuf | http://ctags.sourceforge.net/ctags.html | Jul 03 19:31 |
| mbuf | for etags, http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/0153 | Jul 03 19:31 |
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| mbuf | don't read it yet! just skim through quickly | Jul 03 19:32 |
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| mbuf | i use the following to generate the TAGS file from etags: | Jul 03 19:32 |
| mbuf | find . -type f -name '*.[ch]' | xargs etags -a | Jul 03 19:32 |
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| mbuf | open Emacs, and then use the short-cuts to just browse through the code | Jul 03 19:33 |
| mbuf | you can also use cscope: http://cscope.sourceforge.net/ | Jul 03 19:33 |
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| mbuf | and here is a tutorial for vim/cscope: http://cscope.sourceforge.net/cscope_vim_tutorial.html | Jul 03 19:33 |
| mbuf | don't try it yet! just skim through quickly | Jul 03 19:33 |
| mavu | ! | Jul 03 19:34 |
| mbuf | mavu, shoot! | Jul 03 19:34 |
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| mavu | is emacs already present or we download it? | Jul 03 19:34 |
| mbuf | mavu, depends on your distro :) if not installed, you can install it -- use your distro package manager | Jul 03 19:34 |
| mavu | okay | Jul 03 19:35 |
| mbuf | If people using GNU Emacs, still want the "IDE" kind of look and feel, you can try emacs code browser: | Jul 03 19:35 |
| mbuf | http://ecb.sourceforge.net/screenshots/index.html | Jul 03 19:35 |
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| rtnpro | ! | Jul 03 19:36 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, shoot! | Jul 03 19:36 |
| rtnpro | How do we get the emacs code browser? | Jul 03 19:37 |
| rtnpro | <EOF> | Jul 03 19:37 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, 1. Need to install "ecb" from your distro package manager 2. you could have searched this on the Internet :) | Jul 03 19:37 |
| rtnpro | It is not in my distro | Jul 03 19:38 |
| sumitc | ! | Jul 03 19:38 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, and which distro are you using? | Jul 03 19:38 |
| rtnpro | Its Fedora 9 | Jul 03 19:38 |
| rtnpro | I have got emacs but not emacs code browser | Jul 03 19:39 |
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| mbuf | rtnpro, you can always install from source | Jul 03 19:39 |
| techno_freak | rtnpro, http://ecb.sourceforge.net/downloads.html | Jul 03 19:39 |
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| rtnpro | ok | Jul 03 19:39 |
| drunkencoder | My connection is going down after every couple of minute | Jul 03 19:39 |
| mbuf | sumitc, shoot! | Jul 03 19:39 |
| sumitc | what is a tag-file? | Jul 03 19:39 |
| rtnpro | What factors should decide the choice of our editor? | Jul 03 19:40 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, wait! | Jul 03 19:40 |
| ria | /msg drunkencoder drunkencoder ping | Jul 03 19:40 |
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| mbuf | sumitc, the TAGS file contains the details of the reference count, and locations of variables/functions et. al. | Jul 03 19:40 |
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| sumitc | So, a tag file is always associated with a specific file? | Jul 03 19:41 |
| mbuf | sumitc, no, it can have information of files in a directory | Jul 03 19:41 |
| sumitc | ok | Jul 03 19:41 |
| sumitc | <eof> | Jul 03 19:41 |
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| mbuf | sumitc, think of it as a database that answers all your queries regarding code references | Jul 03 19:42 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, what factors made you choose your favorite ice-cream? | Jul 03 19:42 |
| sumitc | ok | Jul 03 19:42 |
| rtnpro | My likes and dislikes | Jul 03 19:42 |
| rtnpro | My taste | Jul 03 19:43 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, that answers your question | Jul 03 19:43 |
| rtnpro | ok | Jul 03 19:43 |
| rtnpro | Thanks | Jul 03 19:43 |
| mbuf | moving along | Jul 03 19:43 |
| mbuf | LXR is a very popular cross-referencing engine/tool that you can setup with Apache web-server for your code base | Jul 03 19:44 |
| mbuf | for example: http://lxr.linux.no/linux/drivers/acpi/bus.c | Jul 03 19:44 |
| mbuf | it is wonderful! you can click on any function, variable instance, and it will simply take you to its references! | Jul 03 19:45 |
| mbuf | people who like web interfaces, can setup LXR | Jul 03 19:45 |
| mbuf | or there are tools like doxygen that can generate HTML documentation from source code | Jul 03 19:46 |
| mbuf | http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/ | Jul 03 19:46 |
| sumitc | ! | Jul 03 19:46 |
| mbuf | KDevelop API is a good example: http://kdevelop.org/HEAD/doc/api/html/classes.html | Jul 03 19:46 |
| mbuf | sumitc, shoot! | Jul 03 19:46 |
| sumitc | what do you mean by "generate HTML documentation from source code"? | Jul 03 19:47 |
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| mbuf | sumitc, i just sent an example link :) | Jul 03 19:47 |
| sumitc | oh, alright! | Jul 03 19:47 |
| sumitc | :) | Jul 03 19:47 |
| mbuf | try this one: http://kdevelop.org/HEAD/doc/api/html/cmakejob_8cpp.html | Jul 03 19:48 |
| mbuf | who really wants to documentation? write the code, comment it; generate the documentation! | Jul 03 19:48 |
| sumitc | wow | Jul 03 19:49 |
| mbuf | The gnome guys have devhelp for API references: http://www.gnome.org/projects/devtools/devhelp.shtml | Jul 03 19:49 |
| mbuf | GNOME documentation is also available online: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/2.12/GtkButton.html | Jul 03 19:50 |
| mbuf | Wow! | Jul 03 19:50 |
| mbuf | By the way, you can also install these documentation offline, usually installs in /usr/share/doc | Jul 03 19:51 |
| mbuf | It is a very good practice, to install development documentation like these when you install development headers and tools | Jul 03 19:51 |
| mbuf | because you can always refer to them when you are disconnected from the Internet! | Jul 03 19:51 |
| mbuf | they come in extremely handy | Jul 03 19:52 |
| mbuf | so, we have editors, tools; what if you wanted to know how the flow of code? | Jul 03 19:52 |
| mbuf | try GNU cflow: http://www.gnu.org/software/cflow/ | Jul 03 19:52 |
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| mbuf | Actually, most people use printf | Jul 03 19:52 |
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| mbuf | You can also understand the flow with LXR, as you read code | Jul 03 19:53 |
| rtnpro | ! | Jul 03 19:53 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, shoot! | Jul 03 19:53 |
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| rtnpro | Why do we need these LXR,API? | Jul 03 19:54 |
| rtnpro | aren't vi, emacs sufficient? | Jul 03 19:54 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, different people like different ice-creams | Jul 03 19:54 |
| rtnpro | Means its the same case of choice | Jul 03 19:55 |
| rtnpro | Or is these better than the previous ones? | Jul 03 19:55 |
| susenj_ | ! | Jul 03 19:55 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, what I have mentioned is only a few; there are more tools that you can explore :) | Jul 03 19:56 |
| rtnpro | ok | Jul 03 19:56 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, I am only giving an insight into the different ice-creams that are available | Jul 03 19:56 |
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| mbuf | susenj_, shoot! | Jul 03 19:56 |
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| susenj_ | can we use KDevelop for editing and cross referencing both? | Jul 03 19:56 |
| mbuf | susenj_, i guess you can; it is an IDE, I believe; you can check with the KDE guys | Jul 03 19:57 |
| susenj_ | i use KDE ,that's why | Jul 03 19:57 |
| susenj_ | <eof> | Jul 03 19:57 |
| mbuf | susenj_, i haven't used it much; except for the KDevelop tutorial | Jul 03 19:57 |
| rtnpro | ! | Jul 03 19:58 |
| mbuf | susenj_, the features are here: http://www.kdevelop.org/index.html?filename=3.5/features.html | Jul 03 19:58 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, shoot! | Jul 03 19:58 |
| rtnpro | What is LXR? | Jul 03 19:58 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, i expected you to use a search engine; anyways, "Linux Cross Referencer" -- http://sourceforge.net/projects/lxr | Jul 03 19:59 |
| rtnpro | ok | Jul 03 20:00 |
| rtnpro | Thanks ...let me see the page | Jul 03 20:01 |
| mbuf | as i said, this is just a few of the tools that are available, or, that i have come across | Jul 03 20:01 |
| mbuf | there could be even more; you should explore more, and use the one that you like | Jul 03 20:01 |
| mbuf | after all, this community is all about freedom and choice | Jul 03 20:01 |
| mbuf | someday we will make an open recipe for ice-creams as well | Jul 03 20:02 |
| mbuf | This is the end of the session; and I am open to questions | Jul 03 20:02 |
| sumitc | :) | Jul 03 20:02 |
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| mbuf | Either people have gone to buy ice-cream or they are still looking at the links and documentation in detail | Jul 03 20:04 |
| sumitc | the nd one, actually | Jul 03 20:04 |
| sumitc | 2nd one | Jul 03 20:04 |
| mbuf | I am ok with either one :) | Jul 03 20:05 |
| rtnpro | ! | Jul 03 20:05 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, shoot! | Jul 03 20:05 |
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| rtnpro | is cross referencing kind of browsing through the codes? | Jul 03 20:06 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, more than just browsing | Jul 03 20:06 |
| rtnpro | in what sense? | Jul 03 20:06 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, what does this tell you? http://lxr.linux.no/linux/+ident=10010111 | Jul 03 20:07 |
| rtnpro | ok | Jul 03 20:07 |
| mavu | while i was looking at the link.. i accidentally stumbled upon this... seems awesome..http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/lxr/ident? | Jul 03 20:08 |
| mbuf | rtnpro, 1.where the function is located 2. Where it is referenced et. al. | Jul 03 20:08 |
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| mbuf | i would encourage people to document whatever new things they learn, or come across in dgplug wiki site | Jul 03 20:08 |
| mbuf | and if all of you have started blogging, put that in your planet | Jul 03 20:08 |
| mbuf | after all, this community is about sharing knowledge :) | Jul 03 20:09 |
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| mbuf | so, we will close the class session for now; and we shall leave it open for further discussions | Jul 03 20:10 |
| mbuf | so everyone can chip in their suggestions, views, discussions et. al. | Jul 03 20:10 |
| mbuf | <EOF> | Jul 03 20:10 |
| sumitc | doxygen is excellent | Jul 03 20:11 |
| sumitc | so is ctags | Jul 03 20:12 |
| mbuf | It is going to be a long night for all of you, trying all these tools; but, I would prefer if you can spend a day or two on them | Jul 03 20:15 |
| pushkal | mbuf, when you referenced http://kdevelop.org/HEAD/doc/api/html/classes.html, what exactly were you trying to show ? | Jul 03 20:18 |
| pushkal | i mean that i always thought these documentation were built up manually, or is it done with the help of the cross-referencing tools you just mentioned? | Jul 03 20:18 |
| mbuf | pushkal, the tools generate the documentation :) | Jul 03 20:19 |
| mbuf | pushkal, use Free Software tools to make yourself more productive, and efficient | Jul 03 20:19 |
| pushkal | mbuf, all of it ? i mean the from the web pages, to the links to the matter ? | Jul 03 20:20 |
| pushkal | <eof> | Jul 03 20:20 |
| mbuf | pushkal, if you want to eat all the ice-cream, you can! nobody is stopping you :) | Jul 03 20:21 |
| techno_freak | pushkal, in the place where i work, we generate the entire documentation library using a tool called sphinx | Jul 03 20:21 |
| mbuf | pushkal, or if you only want selected flavors, you can choose; | Jul 03 20:21 |
| techno_freak | we write only the code and document content, rest is done by the tool | Jul 03 20:21 |
| *pushkal would certainly love to have all of it !! | Jul 03 20:21 | |
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| pushkal | thanks mbuf , techno_freak ! | Jul 03 20:22 |
| Prakhar | sorry, guys, i missed. will read the logs soon. it seems that something very cool was discussed | Jul 03 20:23 |
| mbuf | Prakhar, yes, both Free Software and ice-cream are cool! | Jul 03 20:23 |
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| Prakhar | :) hey mbuf, i read many of your presentations. and i appreciate your efforts | Jul 03 20:24 |
| mbuf | Prakhar, np | Jul 03 20:24 |
| mbuf | ok guyz, i am calling it a day | Jul 03 20:24 |
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| mbuf | now that we know each other, you are welcome to add me in orkut, or LinkedIn; | Jul 03 20:25 |
| mbuf | i will be available on this channel, if I am logged in; | Jul 03 20:25 |
| mbuf | else, you are welcome to send me an e-mail; and we shall keep in touch | Jul 03 20:25 |
| ecntrk | will you please give your orkut uid? | Jul 03 20:25 |
| bose_aritra | ^^^^^^ yes | Jul 03 20:26 |
| Prakhar | sure, thanks mbuf! | Jul 03 20:26 |
| susenj | will you please? | Jul 03 20:26 |
| mbuf | ecntrk, take the link from shakthimaan.com; you really need to use a search engine | Jul 03 20:26 |
| Kishan | of course. | Jul 03 20:26 |
| pushkal | use shois people | Jul 03 20:26 |
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| mbuf | Happy Hacking! | Jul 03 20:26 |
| pushkal | whois* | Jul 03 20:26 |
| Prakhar | mbuf, :) | Jul 03 20:26 |
| ecntrk | mbuf: hmm<eof> | Jul 03 20:26 |
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| bose_aritra | tuxmaniac, when will be the next class? | Jul 03 20:27 |
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| rtnpro | ! | Jul 03 20:29 |
| *techno_freak has changed the topic to: Welcome to Linux User's Group of Durgapur | Mailing list at http://lists.dgplug.org/listinfo.cgi/users-dgplug.org | Old classes http://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/ | 7pm mbuf on Code cross-referencing tools - CLASS OVER | | Jul 03 20:29 | |
| amrita | techno_freak, what about the class at 10.30? | Jul 03 20:30 |
| rtnpro | Does doxygen generate docmentation from the source code by itself? | Jul 03 20:30 |
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| rtnpro | Is documentaion a kind of help file? | Jul 03 20:31 |
| techno_freak | amrita, no idea, looks like nothing is scheduled. gotta ask kushal da | Jul 03 20:31 |
| ria | techno_freak, ping | Jul 03 20:31 |
| rtnpro | techno_freak, can you help me with the doubts | Jul 03 20:31 |
| techno_freak | ria, yes? | Jul 03 20:31 |
| techno_freak | rtnpro, ? | Jul 03 20:31 |
| rtnpro | techno_freak, yes | Jul 03 20:31 |
| Kishan | will there be a class at 10:30???? | Jul 03 20:31 |
| ria | techno_freak, kushal has asked you to send logs of today's class positively | Jul 03 20:32 |
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| ria | Kishan, not sure about it | Jul 03 20:32 |
| techno_freak | ria, sure, will mail him the logs | Jul 03 20:32 |
| techno_freak | :) | Jul 03 20:32 |
| rtnpro | techno_freak, is this documentation generated by doxygen a kinf of hhelp file? | Jul 03 20:32 |
| ria | techno_freak, ok | Jul 03 20:32 |
| Kishan | ya...seems so.... | Jul 03 20:32 |
| rtnpro | Kishan, any commments | Jul 03 20:32 |
| techno_freak | rtnpro, it's a proper HTML documentation for the source files | Jul 03 20:33 |
| rtnpro | techno_freak, ? | Jul 03 20:33 |
| techno_freak | rtnpro, it's not a manual or tutorial, it's code documentation | Jul 03 20:33 |
| rtnpro | techno_freak, means code in html format for easy searching the various functions | Jul 03 20:33 |
| rtnpro | techno_freak, is it? | Jul 03 20:34 |
| sumitc | rtnpro, try them out, you'll get it | Jul 03 20:34 |
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| techno_freak | rtnpro, when you write code, you also write documentation along with it | Jul 03 20:34 |
| rtnpro | techno_freak, like web pages | Jul 03 20:34 |
| ria | today there will be no classes | Jul 03 20:34 |
| rtnpro | sumitc, let me see...thanks | Jul 03 20:34 |
| sumitc | np | Jul 03 20:34 |
| *techno_freak has changed the topic to: Welcome to Linux User's Group of Durgapur | Mailing list at http://lists.dgplug.org/listinfo.cgi/users-dgplug.org | Old classes http://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/ | 7pm mbuf on Code cross-referencing tools - CLASS OVER | No Class at 10.30 today | | Jul 03 20:34 | |
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